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What to do about brake judder and fast warping rotors...

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Old 01-01-2017, 02:11 PM
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What's everyone's opinion on Stop Tech rotors in these cars, I have them on my Turbo'd 240sx that I'm tracking but I don't know if there be ok for daily with maybe less aggressive pads? Thanks y'all!
Old 01-01-2017, 02:35 PM
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I had bad luck with StopTech/Centric DRILLED rotors. They cracked on me. I went back to OEM style and have had no problems. As for pads, I have tried: EBC "Green Stuff" (great bite, eat rotors like candy), Hawk HPS ( DO NOT USE IN COLD AND WET!), and now I'm back to metal/ ceramic for alround use.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasscout View Post
I had bad luck with StopTech/Centric DRILLED rotors. They cracked on me. I went back to OEM style and have had no problems. As for pads, I have tried: EBC "Green Stuff" (great bite, eat rotors like candy), Hawk HPS ( DO NOT USE IN COLD AND WET!), and now I'm back to metal/ ceramic for alround use.
On my Track 240 my rotors are the power Slodded one not the drilled ones,as I know at the track and at that temps they'll crack easy.Im in love with the stop tech at the track but didn't know if there still good for the G's for a daily beating! Thanks tor the opinion Texasscout!
Old 01-01-2017, 08:52 PM
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Yeah I tried a lot of different pads on my non-beembo '06... OEMs in the front is where the scary good braking is at!
Old 01-02-2017, 04:35 PM
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It takes much longer than 15 minutes to bed new rotors and pads. My EXPERIENCE, years ago, I made the mistake of not taking the time and warped brand new rotors. Manufacturers also state the time it takes to break in new rotors and pads. However, people can believe what they want and do what they want. After installing my new Akebono BBK, I followed the recommendation process and I'm enjoying my brakes.
Old 01-02-2017, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
It takes much longer than 15 minutes to bed new rotors and pads. My EXPERIENCE, years ago, I made the mistake of not taking the time and warped brand new rotors. Manufacturers also state the time it takes to break in new rotors and pads. However, people can believe what they want and do what they want. After installing my new Akebono BBK, I followed the recommendation process and I'm enjoying my brakes.
Mr Brooks you ain't kidding about "the bedding time" I found that out the hard way with my Stop tech on my track cars setup as I was coming hot into a S shape turns and I had to get on my brakes harder then normal then after that my rotors were tossed/warped pretty darn bad,my next set I did the company recommended process and bam them rotors been on my Turbo'd 240sx track car for 2 seasons!
Old 01-02-2017, 06:56 PM
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After years of using DBA slotted/drilled rotors and HAWK HPS pads I've never felt any rotor judder while braking! Once pads are installed first thing I do is the "Bed In" process which results in red hot rotors, smoke coming from SLICK'S brakes. She gets rolled into the garage and sits for several hours while the brakes cool, note...the brake pedal is never applied. Once pad material is applied to the rotors, they're broken in, no need to wait extra miles to begin using them! I do frequent canyon runs in the mountain area north of Santa Clarita, driven in ankle deep pouring rain on the 101 & 126 numerous times coming home from Santa Barbara, have never experienced brake fade from my HAWK pads or rotor judder.
Gary
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gary c View Post
After years of using DBA slotted/drilled rotors and HAWK HPS pads I've never felt any rotor judder while braking! Once pads are installed first thing I do is the "Bed In" process which results in red hot rotors, smoke coming from SLICK'S brakes. She gets rolled into the garage and sits for several hours while the brakes cool, note...the brake pedal is never applied. Once pad material is applied to the rotors, they're broken in, no need to wait extra miles to begin using them! I do frequent canyon runs in the mountain area north of Santa Clarita, driven in ankle deep pouring rain on the 101 & 126 numerous times coming home from Santa Barbara, have never experienced brake fade from my HAWK pads or rotor judder.
Gary
Gary- yes I love my Hawks pads on my track car,have couple of people in my class that aren't big fan of Hawks but also most of us at the track that's what we run! As for Bed in that's the most important part most people either skip or don't do the correct way!
Old 01-02-2017, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary c View Post
After years of using DBA slotted/drilled rotors and HAWK HPS pads I've never felt any rotor judder while braking! Once pads are installed first thing I do is the "Bed In" process which results in red hot rotors, smoke coming from SLICK'S brakes. She gets rolled into the garage and sits for several hours while the brakes cool, note...the brake pedal is never applied. Once pad material is applied to the rotors, they're broken in, no need to wait extra miles to begin using them! I do frequent canyon runs in the mountain area north of Santa Clarita, driven in ankle deep pouring rain on the 101 & 126 numerous times coming home from Santa Barbara, have never experienced brake fade from my HAWK pads or rotor judder.
Gary
^^^ This. I followed the StopTech procedure for "Bedding in" brakes to the letter. Hard Stops from 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90mph. You NEVER come to a complete stop however. You NEVER want the pads in contact with the rotors when they are red hot. When you get done, there will be smoke coming from your pads and it will look like your brakes are on fire! I then drive home never coming to a full stop and coast to a stop (using the hand break if I need to) and let them cool. I follow this with ALL my cars/trucks. It takes about 15-20 minutes tops.

As in the 'white paper" I posted earlier, you get brake "judder" from a performing a "panic" stop and then NOT taking you foot off the brake. It leaves pad material embedded in the rotor. That area has a higher coefficient of friction than the rest of the rotor so it pulls harder and causes the "judder".
Old 01-02-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam G35S View Post
Gary- yes I love my Hawks pads on my track car,have couple of people in my class that aren't big fan of Hawks but also most of us at the track that's what we run! As for Bed in that's the most important part most people either skip or don't do the correct way!
Hawk pads are great on the track, not on the street. You just can't keep enough heat in them to make them work well when it's cold and wet.
Old 01-03-2017, 10:03 AM
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Hawk pads are great on the track, not on the street. You just can't keep enough heat in them to make them work well when it's cold and wet.

That was my experience as well. Great pads on the track or AutoX, but on a daily driver, there are other choices. There were frequent times where I'd drive a car equipped with them on a cold subfreezing morning and those first few stops were weak. I'd purposely do a few hard stops in the AM just to get some heat in them and they were fine until I found myself sitting in traffic again.

To a lesser extent, my Centric Ceramic pads I put on my G35 were the same. First stop was a little weak (nowhere near where the Hawks were), but after a couple stops they were fine. My final set of pads with the car were OEM (with centric rotors) and the initial cold bite with the OE pads was great.
Old 03-03-2017, 09:42 PM
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Ok- reviving an old thread to spread knowledge. I have see a couple people recommend a torque wrench, but failure to mention 2 key bits. One- Use the manufacturers specs, not something you heard a friend say. Two- Don't tighten the them in a circular pattern!!! ONLY a star pattern. -

1
4 3
2 5

This and proper break-in will keep warped rotors at bay 98% of the time.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bugeyetex View Post
Ok- reviving an old thread to spread knowledge. I have see a couple people recommend a torque wrench, but failure to mention 2 key bits. One- Use the manufacturers specs, not something you heard a friend say. Two- Don't tighten the them in a circular pattern!!! ONLY a star pattern. -

1
4 3
2 5

This and proper break-in will keep warped rotors at bay 98% of the time.
This is the way I've always put my wheels on for 20 years or so and it did my no good. Manufacturers specs in 3 stages (25, 50, 80 ft-lbs) and in star pattern with a calibrated torque wrench. Still had issues.

The use of the word "warp" is misleading. The pulsation you feel is variations in thickness on the rotor due to pad material fusing to the surface. Usually this occurs when you heat up the brakes, come to a dead stop and a bit of material "welds" to the surface.

Once in a rare while, if I got my brakes nice and toasty (like coming off the onramp before work) and then immediately park the car, i'll notice that I had to "break free" the car with a little bit of gas after shifting to D. I also used to notice pad imprinting a lot on my rotors. That's when enough pad material fuses onto a hot rotor you can see the shape of the pad on the rotor.

The common denominator with all the sets of rotors and pads I ran was that I used OEM pads. For rotors I used a mix of OEM and Centric rotors, and noticed the issue was greater with the OEM rotors. Perhaps the OE pads don't need much temp to fuse, which would explain why others running different brand pads may not notice the issue.

But if the rotor truly warped, you'd never really feel it. The caliper is a floating type so it would simply shift side to side following the bend of the rotor. To feel pulsation, something needs to push the pistons in slightly. That would usually be the pad deposits.

I'm in a new car now, and it's been 20K miles, but honestly, one thing I remember thinking to myself was that is was nice to be in a car where I can be aggressive on the brakes, and not worry about holding my foot on the pedal at the end of a highway onramp. In fact, I pay no attention to my braking behavior anymore (a habit that took a while to let go of coming from the G35) and don't have any issues with pulsation at all.

I didn't even own an impact gun until this past year. I've always torqued my wheels in 3 steps in a star pattern. Only car I've ever had issues with pulsating brakes has been the G35.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang5L5 View Post
This is the way I've always put my wheels on for 20 years or so and it did my no good. Manufacturers specs in 3 stages (25, 50, 80 ft-lbs) and in star pattern with a calibrated torque wrench. Still had issues.

The use of the word "warp" is misleading. The pulsation you feel is variations in thickness on the rotor due to pad material fusing to the surface. Usually this occurs when you heat up the brakes, come to a dead stop and a bit of material "welds" to the surface.

Once in a rare while, if I got my brakes nice and toasty (like coming off the onramp before work) and then immediately park the car, i'll notice that I had to "break free" the car with a little bit of gas after shifting to D. I also used to notice pad imprinting a lot on my rotors. That's when enough pad material fuses onto a hot rotor you can see the shape of the pad on the rotor.

The common denominator with all the sets of rotors and pads I ran was that I used OEM pads. For rotors I used a mix of OEM and Centric rotors, and noticed the issue was greater with the OEM rotors. Perhaps the OE pads don't need much temp to fuse, which would explain why others running different brand pads may not notice the issue.

But if the rotor truly warped, you'd never really feel it. The caliper is a floating type so it would simply shift side to side following the bend of the rotor. To feel pulsation, something needs to push the pistons in slightly. That would usually be the pad deposits.

I'm in a new car now, and it's been 20K miles, but honestly, one thing I remember thinking to myself was that is was nice to be in a car where I can be aggressive on the brakes, and not worry about holding my foot on the pedal at the end of a highway onramp. In fact, I pay no attention to my braking behavior anymore (a habit that took a while to let go of coming from the G35) and don't have any issues with pulsation at all.

I didn't even own an impact gun until this past year. I've always torqued my wheels in 3 steps in a star pattern. Only car I've ever had issues with pulsating brakes has been the G35.
^^^^ This
Old 03-08-2017, 07:27 PM
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Agreed with most parts as above, but make sure you refinish your brake rotors at an auto parts store or dealership EVERY TIME you changed pads. That is what stopped the issue for me when I owned my X, and allows perfect bed in to happen naturally.

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