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Twincharger Setup

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Old 03-21-2006, 09:53 PM
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Twincharger Setup

I was just wondering if the G35 Coupe engine bay has enough room for a twincharging setup.

For those who are unfamiliar with this, twincharging is an old trick that combines both a supercharger and a turbocharger to give a car the LOW end of a supercharger alongside the HIGH end of a turbo.

Essentially, a supercharger is essentially connected to the drivebelt where it spools at a much quicker rate than say a turbo would. A lot of superchargers can make full boost as quick as 1000 rpm. What would the benefit of this be? Well.. with a supercharger creating full boost, it essentially creates more exhaust flow which in turns spools up a turbo MUCH faster than say a turbo by itself would. Most people use nitrous instead to spool up the turbos, which is fine, but nitrous is expensive and not to mention highly illegal in some areas. With a supercharger you would have theoretically unlimited nitrous, since you get full boost right away.

The other benefit is you can use a rediculously large turbo, and in some cases two rediculous large turbos you would never use, say two Greddy T88 turbos or those Turbonetics Y2K turbos.

A short history lesson here as well, Nissan actually used this in a production car called the Nissan March. It was a very small engine, very crude with I believe 8 valves, but it was pretty fierce on a track. It literally was at full boost at any RPM above idle. This allowed it to pull out of corners faster since at lower speeds you lose boost and it certainly is kick *** to drive.

I was curious as if the engine bay of the 350Z / G35 has enough room for a twincharge setup. I have schematics to build one for an R32 Skyline from a guy in australia who has actually built one before. Its actually quite ingenius, he tells me he can literally go through 4 full gears worth of tire spin with the attesa disabled, whether or not this is true, it is quite impressive.
Old 03-21-2006, 10:10 PM
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do you just want bragging rights for twin-charging setup?
i thought using smaller snails with TT setup did essentially the same thing. You could strap a couple 18G's on or use more moderation when choosing your turbos. I think, as long as they aren't in a true-twin setup your lag should be significantly reduced. having them more like stock TT setups seems to be easier for what you're asking. twin sequential turbos sounds nice right now .... :homerdrool:

anything is possible though
Old 03-21-2006, 10:16 PM
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The JWT setup makes tons of torque at like 2500rpm and the APS is not much higher so it would be a waste in my opinion.
Old 03-21-2006, 10:48 PM
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You could put two smaller turbochargers to produce the same effect, but there are several downsides to this.

- Even with a small turbo, you won't make full boost at 1,000 rpm on ANY turbo. You won't even make full boost till around 2500 RPM on some small turbos.

- Even if you used two small turbos, your again limited to your horsepower peak, your trading off potential horespower for quick spool times. With a twincharger setup, you get to keep both, understand?

With a twincharger setup, you will dominate on a track with this setup, maintaining almost full boost at the supercharger at 1,000 rpm (which in this case you will probably never below 3,500 rpm on a track) means you don't stumble and bog down around corners again.

This setup isn't for anyone, its meant for those who are heavily modified and seeking to balance out their powerband. This isn't nescessarily meant to give you more horsepower, just gives you a real kick *** power band. To put it bluntly, its like driving a twin-turbo v8.

BTW, the only type of supercharger you should use is a twin-screw type, such as the Stillen I believe. The twin-screw will produce more boost at the same rotational speed as a roots type supercharger. Your going for quickness here, not peak horsepower. A centrifrugal s/c takes way too long to spool.

Last edited by dkhl; 03-21-2006 at 10:51 PM.
Old 03-21-2006, 11:39 PM
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i understand your argument. but seriously, think thru the cool name and use some logic. you are under 1K for idle only. you are under 2500 for a whole never under any racing conditions. if it was so perfect, someone would have used it by now in D1 or rally or any other type of racing where power is needed. unless you are planning on racing stop sign to stop sign and coming to complete stops each time with an AT and never revving in neutral the entire "perfect" powerband is not being utilized.
again, i'm not trying to be a dick. but putting that much time, energy, and $$ into a twin-charger doesn't make sense. but to each his own, and good luck with it.
Old 03-22-2006, 07:15 PM
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If you don't understand what I have to say, then I have failed at showing the benefits of such setup. There is a reason why you don't see this setup, because when a company builds a car for track, they don't usually ever use it for drag use. The twincharge concept allows you to have both torque on a track with horsepower on a drag strip.

There is a fellow on one of the mitsubishi forums running a twincharger setup on his Evolution. He uses what I believe is a T78 (don't quote me) and a twin-screw whipple supercharger. Before his twincharger setup, he would hit full boost roughly 6,000 rpm. Now, don't tell me you will be revving to 6,000 rpm on a track all the time. There is no way you will be near redline all the time, and if your not near redline you certainly aren't at full boost. With a twin-screw s/c hes able to hit pull much harder around corners and straightaways since he doesnt have to wait very long for the turbocharger to spool up.

Again, we could use the theory of using smaller turbos for a track, which is absolutely fine and the common place for most people who want quicker spool times. But again, you trade max horsepower for quick spool times. With a twin-charge setup you GET the best both worlds, drag and track.

A drag built engine isn't built the same way as a track built engine. The twincharge simply just merges the benefits both types of powerbands allowing you to make a very sweet ride indeed. Theres always the **** factor if I forgot to mention that. Theres nothing quite like a supercharger whine followed by a large wastegate and a blow off valve sounding off in harmony.

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Originally Posted by imma_stocker
i understand your argument. but seriously, think thru the cool name and use some logic. you are under 1K for idle only. you are under 2500 for a whole never under any racing conditions. if it was so perfect, someone would have used it by now in D1 or rally or any other type of racing where power is needed. unless you are planning on racing stop sign to stop sign and coming to complete stops each time with an AT and never revving in neutral the entire "perfect" powerband is not being utilized.
again, i'm not trying to be a dick. but putting that much time, energy, and $$ into a twin-charger doesn't make sense. but to each his own, and good luck with it.
Old 03-22-2006, 07:18 PM
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That's the most ****-a-mamy thing I ever heard of, turbocharger, lol
Old 03-22-2006, 07:33 PM
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I think VW it using this for one of their newer low end cars, supposed to be at 1.6 liter or possibly less, super and then turbo charged putting out around 200HP.
Old 03-28-2006, 01:09 PM
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I have never heard of that before but there are alot of things out there I probably have never heard of. If what your saying is true it sounds pretty sweet. I would expect something like that to cost ALOT of money though. As far as room in the engine bay...who knows, it is quite crammed but almost anthing is possible if you put your mind to it. If you end up doing something like this post it. I would like to see it.
Old 03-28-2006, 01:12 PM
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it sounds cool...i want it
Old 03-28-2006, 05:43 PM
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I'm familiar with this concept and understand the benefits for a race car. I'm not sure how beneficial this will be for a high-powered street car on street tires. Modern turbos can spool pretty fast, making lag a very temporary, low-rpm issue.

Since we're not talking about an AWD car, the slight lag of a turbo is actually beneficial on the street. Consider it a crude form of traction control.
Old 03-28-2006, 06:20 PM
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you guys never know that VW has already started selling a similar setup in Europe and Asia where the licenscing fee is highly correlated with the engine displacement size? their licesncing fee is almost double our insurance premium

I believe they put a twin-charger setup on a 1.4L 16Valve I4 that squeezes out 200HP and 200ft-lbs of torque

anyways, back to the topic, i see the advantage of the twin charger setup, but it may be very hard since the G's engine bay is pretty tight to start with..
but it is possible IMO
Old 03-31-2006, 02:40 AM
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The twincharger concept itself is really efficient ONE way. That is the turbocharger FEEDS the supercharger. Theres a problem of the supercharger running out of steam up top, with a turbocharger pushing air into the supercharger it won't have this problem, at least theoretically.

Let me clarify this...

Lets say, you have a supercharger feeding your engine 10 psi of boost. Now, a supercharger will make this boost almost instantly, as it feeds 10 psi of boost to the engine no matter the engine speed, i.e. positive displacement. Well, with 10 psi of boost coming on instantly, more air + more fuel = more exhaust = faster turbo spool up.

Now, once the turbos start spooling up (in this case, the larger the turbo, the better).. they begin to pressure the air BEFORE the supercharger. Now what benefits to this? Well.. there are several, first off being.. the turbochargers will generate boost, which in turn gets ADDED to the superchargers boost, ideally.. the supercharger will furthur condense the already compressed air even furthur.

So, if your supercharger is making 10 PSI of boost, and you have your turbocharger pumping out 20 PSI, your overall boost when it hits the intake manifold will be roughly 30 PSI, actually 33-34 [I can't recall the exact calculation, but I'll post it when i get it]. So your 10 PSI of boost out of your 30 total will come on INSTANTLY, and the remaining 20 PSI will come on much quicker.

YES, you can have a TWINCHARGER in a G35 engine bay. I've taken a look at the stillen kit, which sits right at the top of the manifold so fitting a turbocharger on the side shouldn't be too much of a problem. The only issue is you will have to custom make all your intake pipes, etc..

As you shift through all the gears, you will definitely appreciate never falling in below your superchargers boost, i.e. 10 PSI in this case. Actually you will *NEVER* be below 10 PSI or even close to it, if your at 3-4k rpm, you will probably be closer to 15-20 PSI [if your motor can take it of course]. Thats because you will always be at 10 PSI boost because of your supercharger, and since most people are around 3-4k RPM on a track, you will have wahtever boost your turbos contribute.
Old 03-31-2006, 10:47 AM
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oooooooh i get it now. with that explanation it sounds insanely fast and oil burning. turbo timer anyone? haha. maybe it is worth building to now.
Old 07-16-2006, 02:26 AM
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I would love to see someone try it but doubt it will happen due to the expense.

I did see an Integra that they did this on. It took the group a while to tune it right but when it was done it was sweet.

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